Comments on: All Aboard the MisGuided Bus at last! http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/index.php/2009/04/17/aboard-misguided-bus/ Strong men have run for miles and miles, when one from Cherry Hinton smiles Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:10:27 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: David Gould http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/index.php/2009/04/17/aboard-misguided-bus/#comment-15359 David Gould Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:14:10 +0000 http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/?p=528#comment-15359 Highways engineers and railway engineers are two completely different kettles of fish! Each is very competent in his or her own subject area, but when it comes to assessing which is the better option, their own bias will generally come into play. The problem generally gets worse at county council level because there's one or two people on public transport, and about 10 or 20 engineers doing highways - being the smaller group they are generally suppressed or become biased. The other problem is as soon as you try to get Network Rail involved, you suddenly get hit by a brick wall. There are some very good people working there, but getting them to co-ordinate anything that's not in their 5-year control period is nigh on impossible. I suspect the main reasoning behind making it a busway is not cost, but time scale. If you want to deliver a new public transport link within an electoral period (which would have been by 4th June!) then it has to be a busway; simple as. Like you say Chris, there's probably little point discussing these things with the PM. He probably knows a lot about the problems facing the busway. Anyway if they do have bent chassis then they will no doubt wreck the busway, which could ruin the whole experiment. Fingers crossed? Highways engineers and railway engineers are two completely different kettles of fish! Each is very competent in his or her own subject area, but when it comes to assessing which is the better option, their own bias will generally come into play.

The problem generally gets worse at county council level because there’s one or two people on public transport, and about 10 or 20 engineers doing highways – being the smaller group they are generally suppressed or become biased.

The other problem is as soon as you try to get Network Rail involved, you suddenly get hit by a brick wall. There are some very good people working there, but getting them to co-ordinate anything that’s not in their 5-year control period is nigh on impossible.

I suspect the main reasoning behind making it a busway is not cost, but time scale. If you want to deliver a new public transport link within an electoral period (which would have been by 4th June!) then it has to be a busway; simple as.

Like you say Chris, there’s probably little point discussing these things with the PM. He probably knows a lot about the problems facing the busway.

Anyway if they do have bent chassis then they will no doubt wreck the busway, which could ruin the whole experiment. Fingers crossed?

]]> By: Bury_pilgrim http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/index.php/2009/04/17/aboard-misguided-bus/#comment-15249 Bury_pilgrim Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:59:14 +0000 http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/?p=528#comment-15249 I disagree Chris. What could be better than debating your concerns and issues with someone who has a lot of knowledge of the project and the thinking behind it and bigger picture for the future development of it ? You lost a chance for a real-time debate/dialogue. Nice that you blurred everyone's face but aforementioned Engineer. Interesting that you say you went straight from Uni' to technical writing. Have you ever worked on a construction project ? B_P I disagree Chris. What could be better than debating your concerns and issues with someone who has a lot of knowledge of the project and the thinking behind it and bigger picture for the future development of it ? You lost a chance for a real-time debate/dialogue.
Nice that you blurred everyone’s face but aforementioned Engineer.
Interesting that you say you went straight from Uni’ to technical writing. Have you ever worked on a construction project ?
B_P

]]> By: Chris http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/index.php/2009/04/17/aboard-misguided-bus/#comment-15230 Chris Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:09:40 +0000 http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/?p=528#comment-15230 Bury_pilgrim, that's just silly. "Too chicken to stand by your opinion in public"? This was a ride on the busway, not a Council meeting. As I clearly wrote, we were accompanied by one of the project managers, an interesting and eloquent engineer. The point of telling him that I thought the busway is a waste of money would be what, precisely? It would have been as irrelevant to discuss the politics of the project with him as it would have been to discuss the chassis rigidity and guideway surfacing materials with Shona Johnstone. Bury_pilgrim, that’s just silly. “Too chicken to stand by your opinion in public”? This was a ride on the busway, not a Council meeting. As I clearly wrote, we were accompanied by one of the project managers, an interesting and eloquent engineer. The point of telling him that I thought the busway is a waste of money would be what, precisely? It would have been as irrelevant to discuss the politics of the project with him as it would have been to discuss the chassis rigidity and guideway surfacing materials with Shona Johnstone.

]]> By: Bury_pilgrim http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/index.php/2009/04/17/aboard-misguided-bus/#comment-15195 Bury_pilgrim Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:51:36 +0000 http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/?p=528#comment-15195 Fascinating blog. A little bird tells me that during your trip, apart from a couple of very polite general questions, you said nothing about how this was a waste of money and that a train would be better etc,etc but, in fact, were a model happy passenger. Hypoctite. Happy to stab with a pen from a distance but too chicken to stand by your opinion in public when you can see the whites of your opposition's eyes. Fascinating blog.
A little bird tells me that during your trip, apart from a couple of very polite general questions, you said nothing about how this was a waste of money and that a train would be better etc,etc but, in fact, were a model happy passenger.
Hypoctite. Happy to stab with a pen from a distance but too chicken to stand by your opinion in public when you can see the whites of your opposition’s eyes.

]]> By: Tim Phillips http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/index.php/2009/04/17/aboard-misguided-bus/#comment-15183 Tim Phillips Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:21:08 +0000 http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/?p=528#comment-15183 The biggest issue, as far as I am concerned, is that none of the 'benefits' of the guided bus have anything to do with being guided, as compared with a high-quality bus lane on a (more direct) conventional road. Meanwhile, the rail route could have been reopened (with the money saved as a result of my first point) with resultinhg creation of new/better local, regional, long-distance and international journey opportunities. As CAST.IRON pointed out to the inquiry, the vast majority of the benefit/cost ratio benefits came from elements that were nothing to do with the construction or operation of the guideway itself at all, yet this element takes up the vast majority of the costs! But hey, that's the politics of...well, politics; certainly not of good transport planning. The biggest issue, as far as I am concerned, is that none of the ‘benefits’ of the guided bus have anything to do with being guided, as compared with a high-quality bus lane on a (more direct) conventional road.

Meanwhile, the rail route could have been reopened (with the money saved as a result of my first point) with resultinhg creation of new/better local, regional, long-distance and international journey opportunities.

As CAST.IRON pointed out to the inquiry, the vast majority of the benefit/cost ratio benefits came from elements that were nothing to do with the construction or operation of the guideway itself at all, yet this element takes up the vast majority of the costs!

But hey, that’s the politics of…well, politics; certainly not of good transport planning.

]]> By: John Grant http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/index.php/2009/04/17/aboard-misguided-bus/#comment-15180 John Grant Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:05:43 +0000 http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/?p=528#comment-15180 Re getting people out of their cars, I remember when I lived in Nottingham in 1969 they had some smart new Mercedes double deckers that were a lot comfier than my Hillman Imp (and, come to think of it, than most present-day buses). Might have been different if I'd had a BMW of course ... Re getting people out of their cars, I remember when I lived in Nottingham in 1969 they had some smart new Mercedes double deckers that were a lot comfier than my Hillman Imp (and, come to think of it, than most present-day buses). Might have been different if I’d had a BMW of course …

]]> By: John Connett http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/index.php/2009/04/17/aboard-misguided-bus/#comment-15179 John Connett Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:09:29 +0000 http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/?p=528#comment-15179 I was a prize winner on the second bus at 15:00 on 17 April 2009. Managed to get the WiFi to work from my Nokia N800. Ride on the guideway was smoother than the local roads. Maximum speed is regulated to 56 mph and my GPS suggested that we reached 52 mph. Saw one tin can and other debris on the guideway but didn't notice any bumps from them. Significant slowdowns at road crossings. The footpath crossing seemed to be taken at around 25 mph. Saw several youths walking on the guideway. Not sure how effective the "car traps" will be. I was a prize winner on the second bus at 15:00 on 17 April 2009. Managed to get the WiFi to work from my Nokia N800. Ride on the guideway was smoother than the local roads. Maximum speed is regulated to 56 mph and my GPS suggested that we reached 52 mph. Saw one tin can and other debris on the guideway but didn’t notice any bumps from them. Significant slowdowns at road crossings. The footpath crossing seemed to be taken at around 25 mph. Saw several youths walking on the guideway. Not sure how effective the “car traps” will be.

]]> By: Mike Page http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/index.php/2009/04/17/aboard-misguided-bus/#comment-15178 Mike Page Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:16:30 +0000 http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/?p=528#comment-15178 a) Could not see that much difference between the ride on the guided busway and a newly metalled road still in good condition. There was a drastic difference comparing the ride in the guided bus down the potholed and bumpy King's Hedges Road and on the busway itself. On the busway one could feel the joints, though not unobtrusively, and there was some slight hunting at one point. Some people might find reading on the guided bus easier than on an ordinary road bus. b) A train, in as 'new' condition as the guided bus, and with the trackbed also recently fettled, would provide a much smoother ride. Some trains, such as the 170 diesel trains used on the Stansted - Birmingham run, are noticeably quieter. Let's see how the guided busway is performing after a full year's operation in all weathers. a) Could not see that much difference between the ride on the guided busway and a newly metalled road still in good condition. There was a drastic difference comparing the ride in the guided bus down the potholed and bumpy King’s Hedges Road and on the busway itself. On the busway one could feel the joints, though not unobtrusively, and there was some slight hunting at one point. Some people might find reading on the guided bus easier than on an ordinary road bus.
b) A train, in as ‘new’ condition as the guided bus, and with the trackbed also recently fettled, would provide a much smoother ride. Some trains, such as the 170 diesel trains used on the Stansted – Birmingham run, are noticeably quieter.
Let’s see how the guided busway is performing after a full year’s operation in all weathers.

]]> By: Chris http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/index.php/2009/04/17/aboard-misguided-bus/#comment-15177 Chris Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:13:32 +0000 http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/?p=528#comment-15177 You could detect the "hunting" but it won't affect anyone. The ride wasn't <i>remarkably</i> smooth, but when the bus went onto the normal roads you could really tell the difference, so I suppose you'd describe it as "unnoticeably smooth". Any reduced vibration certainly didn't overcome the swaying you get on a top deck. I imagine a single-decker would be a better experience. I still can't imagine how it's "going to get the BMW drivers out of their cars" though, as predicted. They don't love their cars for the ride, they love them because they protect them from the great unwashed, simple as that. You could detect the “hunting” but it won’t affect anyone. The ride wasn’t remarkably smooth, but when the bus went onto the normal roads you could really tell the difference, so I suppose you’d describe it as “unnoticeably smooth”. Any reduced vibration certainly didn’t overcome the swaying you get on a top deck. I imagine a single-decker would be a better experience.

I still can’t imagine how it’s “going to get the BMW drivers out of their cars” though, as predicted. They don’t love their cars for the ride, they love them because they protect them from the great unwashed, simple as that.

]]> By: John Grant http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/index.php/2009/04/17/aboard-misguided-bus/#comment-15176 John Grant Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:07:58 +0000 http://www.chrisrand.com/blog/?p=528#comment-15176 How did the ride on the busway compare with (a) the ride on roads (b) a train? Was there much side-to-side hunting? How did the ride on the busway compare with (a) the ride on roads (b) a train? Was there much side-to-side hunting?

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