10 Dec 2011
Do you ever get to Roots Hall?
Yeah, we waited a long time to finish off the album, but so did the band. Rock And Roll Is Full Of Bad Wools is another album-closing epic, which certainly didn’t let us down. Lots to get stuck into. Thanks to (deep breath) Norbert D, NigeyB, Simon P, Matthew, Gregg Z, Spencerthehalfwit, Ezekielpuncheddanbrown, Ray and Martin D…
See lyrics to Rock And Roll Is Full Of Bad Wools
128 Letters Sent:Jump to latest »
Third Rate Les
Sorry to be all Southern and that (my claims to being from East Lancs get more and more fragile as the years go by), but what exactly is a Bad Wool? There was some discussion about it but it didn’t really answer it.
Sep 14th, 2011
Paul F
I think people from East Lancs qualify, if that helps.
Sep 14th, 2011
Dave Wiggins
Third Rate Les; therein lies a debate that has raged for years, and lingers on. One of several derivations of ‘wool’ (in this context) is a ‘woolly back’; ie, somebody not from Merseyside. Commonly used to describe a fellow whose clothing, or accent, may leave a lot to be desired (subjective, of course), a ‘bad wool’ will, for example, wear training shoes that his other half picked up, say, in Primark, and will have no reputable brand name. The old Everton / Liverpool folk song may resonate here also: “There’s a woolly over there (over there). And he’s wearing red ‘airwear (red ‘airwear). With a ’3-star’ jumper halfway up his back, he’s a f****** woolly back (woolly back)”. To the tune of ‘There’s a grocer in the town”. This is just for starters …..
Sep 14th, 2011
Charles Exford
Les, as one who considers himself a Good Wool, I put a typically long and pompous spiel about this on the Yahoo mailing list a couple of weeks back. Didn’t put it here by specific request of Neil G (on the 90 Bisodol (Crimond) thread); on the other hand, as it doesn’t contain any of my ‘theories’, maybe it wouldn’t annoy Neil G too much if I did post it here? What do people think?
Sep 14th, 2011
Dave Wiggins
Yes please Charles. I am not logging out until you do.
Sep 14th, 2011
Charles Exford
OK then, because it does seem that `bad wools’ needs some explanation. Reposted from elsewhere, with added bonus material. Apologies to those who already know, or those who have slightly different versions of history, as well as to those who don’t want to know. Who should probably stop reading now. First a bit about the Scouse term itself, and then the way (I am reliably informed) it is applied in this new song.
The internet and even some published books are full of crap about the origins of the Scouse term “woollyback” to refer to clueless outsiders. The term is not exclusive to Liverpool, incidentally, and has also been used in a very similar way in the North East. It is likely to originate from some or a combination or even all of the following: people from wool-producing areas; people bringing wool into the ports; people who wore sheepskin jackets; people with unkempt hair; people seen as “sheepshaggers”, hairy half-sheep, wide-eyed incomers there to be ‘fleeced’ as they passed through the port seeking work , or often on their way to a new life in the colonies or new world. Indeed, the term like a lot of Scouse-isms, like the word “Scouse” itself in fact, may well have originated at sea. Its first use may have been to refer to clueless, unkempt yokels amongst the crew and/or passengers.
The word has been around for a long, long time and does _not_ originate in any of the dock strikes, as some websites have it. Just because that’s the first time it came to wider attention, because it was “woollyback” labour from South Lancashire that was used to try to break the strikes, doesn’t mean that was its origin. Nor does it refer to wool left on dockers’ backs after carrying bales of wool. That would make the dockers themselves the woollybacks, which they weren’t.
In Liverpool it can refer geographically to people from Lancashire, people from the Wirral, Cheshire, Wales, etc. In Liverpool & Everton football circles it naturally came to refer to all non-Scouse supporters, even those like me who were born within a few miles of the ground.
“Woollyback” was abbreviated to “Woolly” and then just “Wool”.
These abbreviations became especially common in the aforementioned football circles. Wools were always objects of scorn for their fashion sense, which became symbolic of their general cluelessness about football. As the late 70s terrace song, still being sung today on the coaches to away matches, puts it:
“There’s a woolly over there (over there)
And he’s wearing brown Airwear (brown Airwear)
With a 3-star jumper halfway up his back,
He’s a f*ckin’ woollyback (woollyback)”
It was in the late 70s and early 80s that huge numbers of “Wools” from outside really started to jump on the LFC and EFC bandwagons, engendering hostility in some circles. But of course the reasonable view was that it was about “attitude not accent”, a phrase coined by one of the fanzine writers in one of the classic fanzines like The End or Everton’s When Skies Are Grey (WSAG) I think. Thus we gradually acquired the coinages “good wools” (people from outside town who get the culture of the club they claim to support) and “bad wools” (people who don’t, and who are an embarrassment).
These terms are more often that not still used geographically, but “bad wool behaviour” is something that is independent of geography. A surprising number of Scousers still have crap trainers, despite all the advantages of the local education system and some fine retail outlets offering reasonable prices; some Scousers can sometimes wear the latest horrible shiny football shirts over jumpers; a few Scousers have even been heard to get carried away and chant the dismal, generic Soccer AM “Who are Ya?” chant; one or two have perhaps got carried away and let their kids wear face-paint at cup finals; some of them get very excited about international football tournaments and do embarrassing things with national paraphenalia. There are even a few Scousers who adopt Woolly habits and refer to certain opposition teams as “The Scum”. Equally there many out-of-town supporters who would not do any such embarrassing things and are a credit to the fanbase. The famous “Norwegian Wools” flag you see at all Liverpool’s European away matches is welcomed because of its self-deprecating humour, whereas if a flag went up with let’s say “Chesterfield Reds on Tour”, it would soon meet a sticky end. Bad wool behaviour to make an embarrassing flag like that. Incidentally Liverpool supporters consider it _very_ bad wool behaviour to write your club’s name on a national flag.
Clearly Nigel Blackwell is not using the term geographically. For a start, in a geographical sense, he is to many Scousers a “wool” himself, and his beloved Tranmere Rovers would be seen by many Scousers as a “woollyback” club (though I have also heard some of Tranmere’s finest and hardest use it ironically against Wrexham or Chester supporters). And if that wasn’t clear, well he told me last week that “as you know, our generation’s idea of a ‘wool’ is not a geographical notion in any way” and that “the biggest baddest wool I know is from [he specified a well-known area of central] Liverpool”. He also referred to “bad Wools who’ve just discovered Johnny Cash”, spreading the theme to another track off the new album.
So in his new song it refers to people like up-and-coming rock and pop stars who jump on the football bandwagon without a clue. They appear, for example, on the Soccer A.M. sofa and spout shite about `footy’ to show how cool they are. In one live version of `A Country Practice’ a couple of years back, Nigel summed up his feelings on the matter as he screwed up his eyes and ranted as follows:
“Pop groups on the Saturday morning couch, yawning. Bad wools in the Luther Blissett Stand*. Bands on Soccer AM being asked “Well, you come from Southend do you ever get down to Roots Hall much ?” and they just look to the side to the TV chef, and they look at Razor Ruddock, but Razor Ruddock ain’t gonna help you now boys.
BAND (whispering frantically amongst themselves): What’s Roots Hall? What’s Roots Hall?
PRESENTER: I thought you came from Southend?
BAND: Yeah well there’s four of us in the band and one doesn’t like football. They support Manchester and Liverpool, and I errm, support Arsenal and Chelsea. Here’s our latest single.
PRESENTER: Thanks.”
This scenario is remarkably similar to the one described in the sample verse of the new song. Bad wools in this context = clueless fools, largely but not exclusively from the places like the home counties, largely middle class, with no idea of how to disguise their ignorance of real, traditional football culture at all gracefully.
* I hasten to add that I myself have only ever caught a couple of editions of the execrable excuse for a TV show ‘Soccer AM’, but for those unaware: ‘The Luther Blissett Stand’ is a particularly attention-seeking section of the audience of that particular Saturday morning show called on to represent ‘their’ club, all clad in their horrible shiny overpriced replica shirts of course. They have to take part in certain embarrassing challenges, especially embarrassing to other supporters of their own club, obviously. I am told that Nigel’s new song is not necessarily to be seen as an attack on Soccer AM itself, so much as the clueless fools who go on it, and especially those kinds of rock groups. The song then goes on to broaden the scope of its satire about clueless behaviour in rock circles.
What is really sad is that the Sky generation of kids are taking their example from these people and generally following the creeping shiny Americanisation of our game.
Your humble servant,
Charles Exford,
Hughes Lane,
Oxton
PS – See also the similar Scouse word ‘beauts’, meaning clueless idiots, whether they are local or not. Sometimes used for posh idiots, fresh-faced bosses who haven’t got a clue, etc. A word Nigel Blackwell has also used on stage recently. About Sebastian Coe, I believe.
Sep 14th, 2011
Chris The Siteowner
You’re regretting that now, aren’t you, Dave?
Magnificent effort, Charles. I’m wondering if, during the next three-year, between-albums gap, we shouldn’t start a glossary of everything in every song, as Gez’s site does. But write essays instead of pithy one-liners.
Sep 14th, 2011
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
Can we set the essay titles for the glossary ourselves Chris; can we?
“To what extent can the juxtaposition of good and bad wools within a geographical location be explained historically, culturally and socially? Explain with particular reference to the use of the touchline refrain ‘Who are ya?’ as a determining factor and necessary condition of being a bad wool.”
BTW Exxo, much enjoyed post 131. I’m whispering it quietly you understand, but before I was saved by the Pistols, I used to go to school discos in a 3-star jumper, Oxford bags with a five button waistband and 2″ wedges. Right, let us never speak of this again.
Sep 14th, 2011
Dave Wiggins
Not at all, Chris! Epic and definitive that, Charles, and very many thanks for sharing it with those of us who hadn’t seen it. ‘Bad Ted’ is another variation on ‘Bad Wool’ or ‘Beaut’.
Sep 14th, 2011
Third Rate Les
Thanks for that Dave, Chris and Exxo.
Seeing as the only time I’ve been to Anfield was in the director’s box (I had a mate whose dad worked for Crown Paints) and I got a picture of me, my brothers, Bruce Grobelaar and the European Cup, I feel I probably fit into the Bad Wool category then. (Liverpool beat Luton 1-0, John Wark scoring the only goal).
That was the only Blackburn Rovers home game I missed that season (a shock 3-1 home defeat to Huddersfield which was the beginning of our slump out of the promotion places that season).
Sep 14th, 2011
Third Rate Les
(it was also my first experience of sitting down at a football match, something I still have never got used to or particularly enjoyed)
Sep 14th, 2011
Dave Wiggins
‘Bad Wool’ reprise. From an old issue of ‘The End’ fanzine. “It’s not about where you’re from. You could live in Gerard Gardens [Wiggins note: purportedly the hardest estate in Liverpool, until it was razed to the ground in the 1970's] and still have a ‘wool’ mentality”. Wise words there, I think. Next week: Him out of ‘Embrace’ explains that, although he was born at the back of Millmoor, he’s always supported Liverpool. The Bad Wool.
Sep 22nd, 2011
Charles Exford
See where you’re coming from there Dave, with Embrace doing the Bad Wool classic of making a World Cup single to cash in on Germany ’06, despite only one of them really being into football at all (Bassist I think? Leeds fan?). They were all from places like Halifax, Hudersfield, Hipperhole, Heaton, Heckmondthingy though, not South Yorks.
Sep 22nd, 2011
Charles Exford
I think in my spiel bout Bad Wools I didn’t rant enough about supporting your local team.
OK, maybe you have serious good family reasons for ‘supporting’ a team at the other end of the country, or even in another country. But you don’t really support _football_ if you never even go to your local team occasionally.
Sep 22nd, 2011
SIMON P
Much as I’m loving “Bad Wools”, it really is NSD MkII isn’t it? Whacking great monolithic Pixies-esque guitar line, bitterly acerbic spoken lyrics, and the second verse veers lyrically away anything to do with the theme of the title.
Sep 25th, 2011
Petrovic
@ Simon P
And is there anything wrong with that
? Know what you mean – though I thought the rant-power was more like A Country Practice. Maybe it’s just the scorn with which he says ‘footie’.
Sep 25th, 2011
SIMON P
Oh no, nothing wrong with that at all
Reckon the really scornful bit is the repeated “so-called” in the first few lines. Incidentally, the only line I can’t decipher is the one after “Enter Ruddock left” … “(something) the crew”?
Sep 26th, 2011
Swanaldo
‘More Doughnuts?’ shout the crew, high art shall not ensue.
Sep 26th, 2011
Swanaldo
It’s Shite Day without the love….
Sep 26th, 2011
SIMON P
@Swanaldo: Nice one, one of those that defies you but is obvious when someone tells you.
Sep 26th, 2011
John Burscough
Some discussion about “bad wool territories” on a Liverpool FC website here from March 09 (including Woolton where I used to work and Grassendale where I rented a flat, making me a triple-dyed wool).
Sep 29th, 2011
Charles Exford
Woollyback labour was used to try break the strikes (between the wars and again, later), so that might have been the first time the expression came to the attention of the national media & most non-Scousers, but it wasn’t the origin of the term and it didn’t mean ‘scab’. It just happened that these scabs were woollybacks, so it might have seemed like a synonym.
Oct 2nd, 2011
DS
‘Ello Exxo. In your comment, I think you’re confusing my comment with someone else’s. I just wanted to corroborate that the word “wollyback” it had appeared somewhere else (viz the north East) other than the Liverpool area. Didn’t really mention any other etymology.
Having said that, your original post that I replied to was brilliant, having explained loads to me about its use in that neck of the woods.
Oct 3rd, 2011
Dave Wiggins
Rafael Sollecito – Bad Wool.
Oct 3rd, 2011
Charles Exford
Why, what’s he done (this time) ?
Oct 4th, 2011
Dave Wiggins
Exxo; he just looks like he’s a part-time ‘Juve’ fan, who has never been near a Serie ‘C’ game in his life.
Oct 4th, 2011
Peter Gandy
Can anyone shed any light on what lipper(sp?) groups are?
Oct 10th, 2011
Norbert D
“Lipper groups” = “LIPA groups”
LIPA = Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts
The next couple of lines should make a lot more sense now.
Oct 10th, 2011
Peter Gandy
Thanks Les and Norbert, that makes perfect sense. Are the Wombats a LIPA group?
Oct 10th, 2011
Dave Wiggins
They are, Peter. They’ve well outstayed their 15 minutes.
Oct 10th, 2011
Paul Rodgers (Crimond)
Speaking of 24HGP, has Nige ever given the “check out our single” routine from Bad Wools in it, or perhaps A Country Practice? Or is it lifted from another Biscuit song that I can’t name? The reason I ask is that for about 2 years I have been self-censoring myself when tempted to advise a pal to check something out.
I’ve looked back at gigs I’ve attended over the last 5 years (only 3 or 4 you understand, but I’m from that down South) in review form and can’t see any reference to Bad Wools being played live. I reckon I heard the “check it out” monologue at The Cambridge Junction when JDOG was about to chart, but it could have been there in 2006 or at The Forum in that London whenever the last gig there was.
Please help someone or I am going to need some deja vu pills to stop me going insane.
Oct 12th, 2011
Charles Exford
I think you might be right, Paul, that ‘check it out’ might have been something that Adrian/Sophie said, or indeed habitually says, in a live version of ‘A Country Practice’. If not, it should have been.
Oct 12th, 2011
Paul F
The origins of the “check it out” rant is in an old interview somewhere I’m sure.
Oct 13th, 2011
Paul F
“Perhaps surprisingly (if you’ve heard the Biscuits’ ‘Bad Review’), Nigel still buys the music press. ‘I read the NME all the time, but never got round to hearing the music so I could have told you all about the Delgados and the cycling analogy before I hear the music. Someone said I should ‘check it out’ – I said “I’m not going to ‘check it out’ but I will go and buy it.’”
5 May 2004 on Gez’s site.
Oct 13th, 2011
Paul Rodgers (Crimond)
@ Paul F Thank you for restoring some faith in my sanity. I struggle enough with linking lyrical couplets to tunes, titles and albums. Rubbish memory I’ve got for sure. I think I would have given up looking for mention of the quote long before delving back through the archives to 2004. Good to see that like all great songwriters he is prepared to keep ideas until the right song presents itself fr him to include them in.
Also thanks for looking it up for me. I appreciate it.
Oct 13th, 2011
Paul F
No problem – like you, ever since reading/hearing that I have become painfully self-conscious everytime the phrase nears my lips!
Thankfully given the volume of interviews Nigel does, going back 7 years took me about 3 minutes!
Oct 13th, 2011
Alan
Can anyone expand on the significance, or otherwise, of LIPA groups please?
Ta
Oct 19th, 2011
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
http://www.lipa.ac.uk/
Oct 19th, 2011
Alan
Thanks VOQN, but any idea what ‘groups’ are being referred to?
Oct 19th, 2011
dagenham Dave
The Wombats apparently met up there.
Oct 19th, 2011
Rubber Faced Irritant
High art does not ensue. Crazy Razor puts Jason in a headlock @ 39 seconds in.
Oct 19th, 2011
Dagenham Dave
‘high art ‘? That’s better than my ‘high arch’ which made no sense whatsoever. Thank the lord for this site
Oct 20th, 2011
Charles Exford
There is of course a LIPA group on Probe Plus, namely Sonnenberg, and they have supported our lads in a live environment in the past. Blurbs spoke of ‘timeless plaintiveness’. It was kind of very accomplished, ethereal wallpaper music and I think in my review I called them ‘harmless’, by which I definitely wasn’t saying ‘pointless’ but possibly yes, ‘soulless’.
Amongst the more interesting rules about LIPA groups is that they should contain at least one Norwegian. Amongst the least interesting rules is that they should worship at the altar of the Beatles and do nostalgia quite a lot, even if they are all about twenty years old.
LIPA groups play live in places like that bar at the Parr Street studios.
They are dead good at playing their instruments and all that.
Oct 20th, 2011
Charles Exford
Re the Soccer AM video – a few years ago when I was doing regular football-related verse on Five Live, a producer from Soccer AM tried to get me to do a ‘Soccer Poetry’ slot on there. Thank you for reminding me why I told them where they could stick it (if not for reminding me of two of the worst ever LFC players. Football is full of bad wools).
Oct 20th, 2011
Duchess of Westminster
I assume the line in RARIFOBW refers to this Neil Young song.
Hey hey, my my
Rock and roll can never die
There’s more to the picture
Than meets the eye.
Hey hey, my my.
Out of the blue and into the black
You pay for this, but they give you that
And once you’re gone, you can’t come back
When you’re out of the blue and into the black.
The king is gone but he’s not forgotten
Is this the story of johnny rotten?
It’s better to burn out ’cause rust never sleeps
The king is gone but he’s not forgotten.
Hey hey, my my
Rock and roll can never die
There’s more to the picture
Than meets the eye.
Oct 21st, 2011
I'm a mate of pat o
LIPA. I’ve worked in a few guitar shops in Liverpool. I’ve served LIPA students and found most of them to be a bit full of themselves. Couldn’t play for toffee but always played loud and SANG! It was always overly dramatic and completely lacking in substance. I’m sure there are YouTube videos of LIPA end of year performances where you can observe the controlled spirit.
Oct 21st, 2011
Gregg Z
Excuse my savage ignorance, but is the phrase “checked out” (as in, “I checked out your single like you asked me to do”), an Americanism?
Never recognised it as such, but if it is, I’ll refrain from using it (on this site, anyway). Wouldn’t be hard.
I’d love to take it upon myself, on behalf of my fellow Americans, to cease the trait of exporting such “idiotic terminology” to your shores.
From the land of Rupert Pupkin, I eagerly await responses of every stripe.
Or any stripe.
Nov 4th, 2011
2 Chevrons
I think Nigel’s point is that there are words and phrases which have been around in the English language which work perfectly well without us having something else introduced. For example “Listen to our new single” which everyone can understand rather than “Check out our new single” which is – how should I put it … a bit twattish.
Nov 4th, 2011
andy
I live 200 yards away from LIPA, Liverpool will never have a busker shortage.
Not very many of their bands stay together after they leave.
Nov 4th, 2011
sgd
in the first issue of “the End” fanzine ,in 1981, “Wools (human variety)” was third in their “out” list.
issue 5 had “the woolies from Deeside” in the in list.
Nov 6th, 2011
Charles Exford
Ah, so you’ve just got Hooto’s new “End” compilation book, then. For those who don’t know, it “would make a great Xmas pressie for the Kopite (or even better the Anny Roader) in the family“.
Nov 6th, 2011
sgd
yes, I had a couple of issues so thought that I would treat myself.I also bought Got,not got both of which give half man half biscuit a mention.
Nov 6th, 2011
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
Got, Not Got is top of my Chrissie present list. I wasted a whole afternoon last week after discovering their blog. Ended up 3 hours later trying to recall which Action Transfer sets I’d stolen from our local newsagent in the late 1970′s on this site (actually, most of them). I’d only started off trying to find a sticker of Ian Ure, that caused me much frustration due to my not having it when I was nine.
T’internet; an infinite amount of tangents.
Nov 6th, 2011
micky (the hoss)
Gary Silke is a mate of mine, He went to Leamington with us last month, A superb book, you’ll love it.
And here’s another video.
Nov 6th, 2011
Hagerty F.
Proof that HMHB’s popularity is growing.
Nov 14th, 2011
Charles Exford
Haha, and there was me having dismissed the idea of the lyric referring to _that_ Preston, because that would mean two different pop/rock acts were on the so-called at the same time, and so (not unreasonably I thought) assuming that “the Preston” were a bunch of PNE in the Luther B. stand.
Nov 14th, 2011
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
Excellent. I intend to have those on my lapel by the weekend.
Nov 14th, 2011
2 Chevrons
‘The Preston’ must be PNE fans (or a random selection of about 8 in the stand)
Nov 15th, 2011
Rubber Faced Irritant
Charles is right. That bad wool is definitely Preston from The Ordinary Boys. You know, went on Celebrity Big Brother and married fellow guest Chantelle. I hope Razor got him in a headlock as well.
Nov 15th, 2011
Third rate Les in his Burberry fez
I’m relieved to hear it wasn’t PNE – I was starting to wonder what he’s got against venerable Lancs clubs
Not that Accy Stanley are particularly venerable, mind you, unless you accept the likeable but slightly fanciful link to the former league club, which again liked to link itself to the genuinely venerable founder league club Accrington FC.
Nov 15th, 2011
Charles Exford
Err, @Rub & 3rd Rate, I was trying to adopt the humorous technique of irony in the manner of some of our greatest satirists, taking the piss out of the badge fella who has obviously misinterpreted the lyric, as I think we all knew somebody would, but not quite so spectacularly.
I obviously failed as usual, but if the bad wool (the rock star guest) is on the sofa having the so-called banter with “the Preston”, it can’t be _that_ Preston, can it? And it must indeed be eight PNE twonks.
Nov 15th, 2011
nigel, no not that one (nx3to)
I have to say I know nothing of that Preston, so I’ve always assumed it to be PNE. Apart from the (sh)outro, it’s not a particular favourite of mine. Having written that, neither was ACP until I heard it live at SBE when the scales fell from my ears (to mix a metaphor).
Nov 15th, 2011
Paul F
I think “..the Preston..” makes it a dead cert that it’s PNE. Maybe this will make those badges a “collectors’ item” in the way that misprinted and discontinued stamps are.
Nov 15th, 2011
Dave Wiggins
The ‘The’ would always sway me that it must refer to a group of football supporters. To-wit; “can you hear ‘the’ Preston sing”?
Nov 15th, 2011
Dave Wiggins
Maybe, though, the badge-maker is the supreme ironist, with a fabulous double-bluff? Although probably not.
Nov 15th, 2011
2 Chevrons
Remain convinced it is PNE fans. If it was the bloke from The Ordinary Boys, would he be on the so-called sofa with “The Heston”. Or, is Nigel sarcastically mocking the fact that the guy is known by his surname?
Nov 15th, 2011
Charles Exford
Don’t worry, Chevrons, case proven.
But in case badge fella is looking in and feeling as gutted as a hummingbird, I will just say in his defence that because _that_ Preston has appeared on Soccer AM more than once (that’s still about 10 times less than Heston), and as he is a fraud as any sort of football supporter then the badges do have certain off-target-but-as-it-was-an-easy-target-we-might-just-have-hit-it-anyway sort of validity.
Nov 16th, 2011
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
Or perhaps a sensational double meaning?
Although I’m firmly in the PNE camp, so to speak.
Nov 16th, 2011
John Burscough
Me too (mind you, I was brought up 200 yards from Sir Tom Finney’s house).
Nov 16th, 2011
andy
surly the lyric is
” having a so called banter with the press then
touching base with fellow guest heston”
Nov 21st, 2011
dagenham Dave
Andy, you could have something there. I didn’t think ‘Preston’ appeared in the lyrics whether North End or the bloke who ruined The Ordinary Boys.
Nov 21st, 2011
Charles Exford
Take it neither of you two have seen the offeding programme then Not a lot of press around. The so-called ‘celebrities’ get heckled by eight ‘fans’ of a league team, maybe the Palace, maybe the Albion, maybe the Pompey, maybe the Charlton, etc.
Just like Oranjeboom because it rhymes with ‘practice room’, it’s Preston (NE) ‘cos it rhymes with ‘Heston’.
By the way, I tried the other day (while waiting to be visited by slumber) to think of other celebs that rhyme with league teams. It ain’t that easy. All I could come up with, given that it would have to be celebs who’d be recognised from one name alone, was:
“Having the so-called banter with the Villa,
Touching base with fellow guest Cilla.”
“Having the so-called banter with the Gills,
Touching base with fellow guest Wills.”
.”Having the so-called banter with the Derby,
Touching base with fellow guest Tarbie.”
“Having the so-called banter with the Posh,
Touching base with fellow guest Tosh.”
“Having the so-called banter with the Crewe,
Touching base with fellow guests Blue.”
“Having the so-called banter with the Chester,
Touching base with fellow guest Esther.”
Having the so-called banter with the Hammers,
Touching base with fellow guest Dammers.”
But none of them are suitable rock stars or regular guests on the offending drivel, and none of them are really ‘target audience’.
Sometimes I think NB57 spends quite a lot of time on these lyrics you know.
Nov 21st, 2011
Dave Wiggins
“Having the so-called banter with the Bury
Touching base with fellow guest Ferry”
Nov 26th, 2011
Jitsu_g
“having the so called banter with the Burnley
Touching base with fellow guest Hugh Fearnley”
Nov 27th, 2011
SPENCER THE HALFWIT
“having the so-called banter with the Northampton Spencer
Touching base with fellow guest Lech Walesa”
Nov 27th, 2011
micky (the hoss)
“having the so-called banter with the Leicester
Touching base with fellow guest Elsa Lanchester”
Nov 27th, 2011
John Anderson
“having the so-called banter with the Swansea
Touching base with fellow guest Steven Nzonzi”
Nov 28th, 2011
Paddy
“having the so-called banter with the York
Touching base with fellow guest Bjork”
Nov 28th, 2011
Joke Shop Excrement
“having the so-called banter with the Burton
Touching base with fellow guest Merton”
or
“having the so-called banter with the Mossley
Touching base with fellow guest Crossley”
Nov 28th, 2011
Chris The Siteowner
I think we get the point – Ed
Nov 28th, 2011
chesneywold
I like swansea and nzonzi best.
Nov 30th, 2011
Jeff Dreadnought
Apologies for bringing this one on deep in injury time, but how about
“Having the so-called banter with the Tottenham
Touching base with fellow guest Gok Wan”
Nov 30th, 2011
Blurred Vision
http://www.nme.com/news/blur–2/60832
“I don’t think Blur would be signed if they were around today. It’s a shame, but you can’t really be in an indie band these days. You can’t really be in Half Man Half Biscuit or Crispy Ambulance today, you can’t make any money.”
And he praises Clarkson – urrgh.
Dec 8th, 2011
Third Rate Les
He’s got a Crazy Razor Headlock coming his way if you ask me.
Dec 8th, 2011
Charles Exford
Apparently his last appearance on the so-called soccer sofa on a saturday morning (3rd September, not that I would know about that sort of drivel of course) can be summed up as follows:
“Having no banter whatsoever with the Robins,
While Steven Taylor clearly thinks his cheese is bobbins,
And though he grew up near Dean Court
They know better than to talk to him about sport.
Because all he’s really on the show for
Is to be ASDA’s corporate cheese whore,
Posing as one of those rural indie food heroes
While promising us vindaloo cheese for the Euros.”
Clearly I’ve got to work on that last couplet a bit.
But WHAT A BAD, BAD WOOL TWAT.
Dec 8th, 2011
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
Steven Taylor’s astonishing lack of cheese awareness is legendary amongst his fellow Geordies, who can regularly be seen following him through the streets of Whitley Bay exhorting “Is it Feta?”. His only other two cheese suggestions in his blind cheese tasting test on SoccerAM were Cheddar and Babybel. The corporate cheese whore must have despaired.
However, any sympathy dissolves when the bad, bad wool shows his true colours with his ‘you can’t really be in Half Man Half Biscuit today’ babble, citing the fact that you can’t make any money at this Indie nonsense. Guess what James, that’s not actually why HMHB exist. Take your cheese related and musically inept corporate stunt shows away. They are neither of interest nor value.
Dec 9th, 2011
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
Now that the lyrics are before us and the job completed, (sweet sherry, large cigar, self-congratulatory pat on back, as appropriate) my only slight eyebrow twinge is whether or not the first Curry Night should be capitalized or not.
I mean the C and N being in upper case by the way, not that Curry Nights be entered into the profit and loss accounts, rather than being written off as expenses, as I imagine many of them are. In my experience it’s not a good idea to attend one if the cost of the pre-packaged, frozen Balti, microwaved to the temperature of molten lava is coming out of your own pocket. Add Naan bread for 99p? You can certainly choose to add something for 99p but bread it ain’t.
Dec 10th, 2011
Paul D.
Just a tiny issue: I think it might be “our hapless singer’s band.” On sound alone, I think it could go either way, but “our” makes more sense than “a” in the context; “our hapless singer” implying the hapless singer we have been discussing (vs. “a hapless singer” implying a hapless singer to whom we haven’t yet been introduced).
Dec 10th, 2011
SPENCER THE HALFWIT
May still contend that LIPA be spelled Lipa, being an acronymous abbreviation that is pronounced as a word. See also Fifa, Uefa, Aids (which isn’t a football organisation as far as I’m aware).
Dec 10th, 2011
Charles Exford
Nah, it’s not that much of a word. And the other examples you cite may sometimes be written like that, but it doesn’t make those the best ways to write them.
Anyway, more importantly it’s definitely “our hapless ….”
Yes, he only says /a:/ but if it was meant to be “a” he’d say /ə/. Accent is an issue on this one so you’ll have to take it from a Wirralian.
Dec 10th, 2011
Simon Smith
It is perhaps ironic that Blur are mentioned in the first December post on this topic as one of their lyrics spring to mind every time Chris kindly triggers an e-mail pertaining to lyrics; “taking the fun out of everything” from There’s No Other Way. Not Mr Rand, of course, perish the thought.
My love of the band has been diluted by the follow on from Chris’s majestic project. I’m sure I don’t need to reiterate why or name names. So, you ask, why not just stay away? I usually do and have been forced to by someone with nothing better to do than squeeze any ambiguity out of lyrical meanings, musical leitmotifs or why NB pulls the left side of the curtain shut first.
From the Whistle Test performance and a baggy M t-shirt through roadieing at ICI Club in Darwen in 1990 to being hospitalised for attacking a cock who spat at NB at C’est La Vie in Blackburn in 1991 to one of the bestnights ever in Manchester in ’98 to a tight XL t-shirt in 2005 and beyond, HMHB have been my favourite band. Finally, that has been raped from me by idiots or AN idiot who has to be seen as the uber-fan.
Good luck. I hope it’s the singer from IT AIN’T HALF MAN MUM that you murder whilst eating upside down cake and listening to Brecht.
Have One Direction got one of these sites btw?
Dec 10th, 2011
Gnostical Turpitude
lol internet drama
Only wanted to thank Mr Exford for the superb Wool essay. Really interesting.
Nice of the NME to put that Blur article in 96 point Futura as someone was stood 20 metres behind me and couldn’t read this sort of TNR. God I hate Alex James.
Dec 11th, 2011
Paul F
Thanks for “At the Queens, up the road”. I’d been hearing it as “That the Queens of the Road” inferring that this was an all-female band with a penchant for touring. The decision to stay where he was, in my mind, was due to the act being “particularly” glib and therefore worth watching ironically. As ever the completed lyrics posted on here make far more sense than the products of my fevered mind.
Dec 13th, 2011
Darren
Interesting to hear the comments regarding Wools, especially Mr Exford’s contribution. As a child in the 70s I moved from Liverpool to Widnes – surely wool central? – to suddenly find myself labelled a ‘woollyback’, soon shortened to ‘woolly’ and ‘wool’.
If I remember correctly, the term was reclaimed by Widnes Rugby League fans during their 80s heyday: “Ooh to, ooh to be, ooh to be a woolly!!” rang from the terraces of Naughton Park most Sundays.
And I have a confession to make. I am the badge man!
I do a little sideline in badges and, one dreary afternoon to cheer myself up, I designed a bunch of HMHB themed items. With regard to the ‘Preston’ affair, I did indeed think that the reference was to the chap from The Ordinary Boys. In retrospect PNE makes more sense – though perhaps a less interesting image for a badge. In defence, I think my judgement may have been clouded by a particular dislike for the irksome Preston and I jumped before I listened.
While I would I contend that Preston is definitely the type of ‘bad wool’ lampooned by the lyrics, ultimately, as it was an attempt to bond with other HMHB aficionados – and in such matters precision is key – I indeed erred spectacularly!
Dec 13th, 2011
Paul F
“spectacularly” – but also “highly amusingly” Darren.
Dec 13th, 2011
littlegrafter
I love this song, best of the lot (on this album) for me. Interesting to see that it ends the album with the same words that ended the previous Fall album.
re Prestongate, yes I too was very much of the Ordinary Boys opinion on first hearings, but in hindsight, yes its got to be PNE really hasnt it. Obviously our hapless singer could well be the OTHER Preston anyway.
Dec 22nd, 2011
That Swan
One wonders if melodic similarities to The Cure’s ‘M’ from ‘Seventeen Seconds’ are deliberate or coincidental.
Jan 25th, 2012
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
All of our songs sound the same (as somebody else’s).
I see where you are coming from, especially in the opening few bars, but I doubt that it is deliberate. Nothing that I can remember from the lyrics fits the ‘Bad Wools’ criteria. Unless it’s a Morrisseyesque snipe at Robert Smith himself.
Jan 25th, 2012
Duchess
Bloody Hell, it’s a perfect rip. I’m hanging my head in shame I didn’t spot this. I’m a Cure fan girl.
Jan 25th, 2012
Chesneywold
I’m gonna go home and check this. Perfect rip?
Jan 30th, 2012
SIMON P
It’s similar, but not the same. If you want a really shameless lift of the Cure, have a listen to Razorlight’s “Golden Touch” (“10.15 Saturday Night”).
Feb 1st, 2012
Paul F
Or for a shameless lift from Flock of Seagulls: Bruce Springsteen’s new single. (There’s a sentence I never thought I’d type).
Feb 1st, 2012
Charles Exford
@ myself (20th Oct)
There was a folky all-female band on Lard’s 6Music show just now, and as soon as they mentioned Liverpool and two former members having gone back to Norway, well you just knew they fitted the patent mould of a LIPA group who never died, but had just carried on with more controlled spirits recruited from LIPA.
Sure enough a quick google revealed them to be LIPA group Stealing Sheep.
Mar 6th, 2012
Guy
Shouldn’t it be “…that the queens of the road TBA…” etc., etc?
Sorry if someon’e already spotted this. And thanks ever so to the explanation of “bad wools” a term which had floored me completely…
Mar 8th, 2012
Paul F
Guy – see my comment above (93). I thought the same, but the actual lyric makes more sense.
Mar 9th, 2012
Charles Exford
Indeed. Especially ‘cos The Queens is, indeed, just up the road. See lists thread, posts 192 through to 206, October last.
Mar 9th, 2012
Charles Exford
Before the album was available, but when the 6Music presenters did have it, I bombarded all their shows with requests, but didn’t realise there was no point asking them for this one, ‘cos at that stage I only knew the title but not the lyrics.
Tom Robinson, bless him, has just played this track now, possible the first DJ to dare to do so, with a very badly edited “UFF-ALL” but no editing of “PISS”.
Somebody who doesn’t understand the track had written in requesting it for the 6Music birthday and describing it as “witty (tick), acerbic (tick) and surreal” (not this one).
Mar 9th, 2012
Charles Exford
Oh, no offence Andy Von Pip – it turns out that it was him, the lad who did the interview, who had chosen the track, I think. Anyway, I’d still argue that it’s the least surreal track on the album
Mar 9th, 2012
peterpinguid
In my opinion there are 2 surreal tracks on the album (or more like 2 trips into the uncanny). Joy in Leeuwarden is such a trip because it is this little self-contained plausible universe that steps into the unsettling with the crock of shut line. Descent of the Stiperstones is the masterpiece of the uncanny though.
Mar 9th, 2012
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
The only truly surreal part of the lyric, insofar as it’s pretty incongruent and doesn’t seem to make a great deal of sense in context, is the verse that connects the two halves of the song;
Somebody patented a mould
Whereby the clay is kept cold
And the spirit is controlled
And the car park is patrolled.
Otherwise it’s witty, acerbic and as straight up and down, tell it like it actually is, call a spade a spade, as NB57 ever gets.
Mar 9th, 2012
SPENCER THE HALFWIT
It’s probably that people use the word surreal as if it just means ‘a bit unusual’. Anyway, as we all know, nothing is regarded as truly surreal unless it involves a reference to fish.
Mar 9th, 2012
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
A duck walks into a bar and says ‘I’ll have a double whiskey please. I’ve been working on me pottery all day and I need to wet me bill.’ The barman responds ‘Piss off duck, I’ve told you before there’s rules about who we sell hard liquor to. Now mind the Mobile Civil enforcement officer on the way out.’
Mar 9th, 2012
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
@ Spencer: Or a duck
Mar 9th, 2012
Charles Exford
@ Vendor. I’d have thought that verse is very real too -.metaphorical but not surreal. It’s about the fame academy that is LIPA, how they try to churn out recording artistes from a mould, in a nice safe environment with security guards looking after the students’ cars that mummy & daddy have bought them. The clay metaphor is probably borrowed from somewhere or other (could be anywhere), and is parodied as one of the most abiding clichés of the creative process. Same applies to the temperature of liquids that are put into a mould, as a metaphor for the degree of ‘spirit’ in a performance, and both have been used as such for millennia.
Mar 10th, 2012
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
Interesting theory as ever Exxo. I’ve lost count of how many times you’ve sent me scurrying back to the Biccie interpretation drawing board. I shall cogitate, contemplate and consider further, and no doubt return a better person.
Actually, in the time I’ve taken to type that out, I’ve decided I rather like your interpretation and fully intend to adopt it as orthodox. Hurrah for hermeneutics!
Mar 10th, 2012
Rubber Faced Irritant
I also assumed that this verse was about the desire of institutions such as LIPA to mould creative young people into representations of what they believe will appeal to a particular demographic. I can’t claim however to have begun to dissect the lyric in Exxo’s forensic detail.
It does seem that since the Bronze Age our forefathers (and mothers) have been using cold clay moulds http://figurativesculptors.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&p=728
The aim appears to have been to prevent the bronze rods that held the figures together from melting. Thus preventing the figures from dissolving into mush. Whether this was worth it for The Wombats is a moot point.
Mar 11th, 2012
John Burscough
For an early example of the clay metaphor, see Isaiah 64:8. “But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.”
Mar 12th, 2012
Third Rate Les
I’m sold on the LIPA group/cold mould link, however far-fetched it sounded yesterday. Clever.
Isaiah is also surely referring right back to Genesis 2:7: “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground”. They don’t get much earlier than that.
Mar 12th, 2012
John Burscough
Anybody care whether it should be Barça (with cedilla)?
Mar 12th, 2012
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
And Lo, unto us did a tangent descend;
In Greek mythology Prometheus shapes man out of the earth, and Athena breathes life into the resulting clay figure.
In Egyptian cosmology Khnum makes people from clay, using a potter’s wheel, silt and Nile water. (Ummmm Nile water)
Sumerian myths have the birth goddess Nammu molding clay into human shape and then creating a workforce to till the soil in order to save the gods from having to do it.
A Babylonian creation story has the goddess Ninhursag creating humans from clay then using her breath to fill these empty vessels with a life-force.
All these pre-date the Torah and would certainly have been familiar in some form or other to Moses and his mates.
Mar 12th, 2012
Third Rate Les
John – does it have a cedilla in Catalan and Spanish? Not so sure.
Anyway, the editor has made it quite clear in the past he’s not interested in accents on foreign words.
Vendor – Genesis in its rough current form is as old as 1000bc but more likely 600bc or so, so it’s historically quite dubious to suggest that the Prometheus myth pre-dates it. Obviously the Sumerian and Egyptian ones do.
Mar 13th, 2012
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
@ TRL. Yer, I typed in haste as usual, and as I was pressing submit I was thinking ‘I’ve not put those in chronological order (or indeed dated and cross-referenced them). Never mind I thought, no one will notice. Not too likely on this site is it!
Mar 13th, 2012
John Burscough
@TRL Barça does (otherwise before an ‘a’ it would be pronounced as a hard ‘c’); Barcelona doesn’t. In Catalan it’s known as ce trencada (“broken c”).
Mar 13th, 2012
Jeff Dreadnought
@Vendor @Exxo In his first Surrealist Manifesto (1924), Andre Breton coins the phrase “surreality” to describe the synthesis of “two apparently contradictory states”: dream and reality. Most subsequent interpretations of surrealism have tended to focus on the dream side of the equation, so that in common usage, the term has come to mean “weird, like in a dream”. I believe the lyric “your weird dreams don’t impress in any way/in dreams weird things seem mundane and everyday” is a very credible attempt on NB57′s part to highlight the absurdity of this commonly accepted notion. Automatic writing as practised by the “true”, early surrealists would have been more likely to have yielded a poem about buying a loaf and returning home immediately than a carefully crafted clay moulding metaphor.
Mar 20th, 2012
BrumBiscuit
Nowt to add to the debate, except that this one makes me piss meself on the drive to work, especially the Ruddock bit. For me it’s the National Shite Day of 90B(C) – though that never made me laugh; I refer to the quality. Should any Black Country-based folk notice someone on the A461 laughing like a drain in a Blue Fiat Multipla, it’s me…
Apr 2nd, 2012
Stringy Bob's mate
Just going back to the Preston. Could this not be rhyming slang. ie Preston pans = fans?
Apr 25th, 2012
stringy bob's mate
That should read Prestonpans (Edinburgh) rather than cooking in the north west!
Apr 29th, 2012
Steve Nicholls
quite possibly this has been mentioned in the 127 previous posts, but I couldn’t see it on a quick skim through.
Found a YouTube clip of Nigel sitting on the so-called soccer sofa on late night 90s show Under The Moon, hosted by Danny Kelly.
He does claim to have gone to Roots Hall.
http://youtu.be/_G9P0je_0Ww (check it out…)
May 15th, 2012
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