10 Mar 2008
Joseph Bloggs and his amazing Technicolor shellsuit
A Country Practice may be named after the Aussie soap but it’s “Sons and Daughters” and “Home and Away” which get the namecheck in the lyrics. A fantastic six-and-a-half-minute rant which is a shoo-in for a place in the top ten best Half Man Half Biscuit songs ever. Musically ace and lyrically sublime.
See lyrics of A Country Practice
28 Letters Sent:
Patrick
Isn’t it ‘boardroom seats’, not ‘…suits’??
Not sure for certain. Great song…one of my faves
Patrick
(PS> great site BTW!)
Mar 19th, 2008
chris
Yep, thanks Patrick, I like that, and it makes more sense. Duly amended.
Mar 20th, 2008
Nathan Bigjobs
isn’t it “Old-a-lady”? rather than “Odelaydee”
Captain Pedantic thinks the “old” bit is important…
Apr 1st, 2008
chris
Hmm, not sure. Anyone? I assumed it was just a yodelling-type thing using Odelay
Apr 1st, 2008
MickeyMo
I think it actually goes “Oh the la - ady labelled me an idle layabout”. the ‘lady’ referring to the ‘Iron Lady’ Margaret Thatcher (Oh how it pained me to type that name).
Apr 18th, 2008
chris
OK, I think we’ve reached the right conclusion!
Apr 19th, 2008
Craig
It doesn’t matter too much but I’m pretty confident it’s ‘old lady’
Apr 22nd, 2008
Kevin
Are you sure it’s Wem, and not REM?
Apr 30th, 2008
chris
Yep, it’s Wem alright.
Apr 30th, 2008
Sanchez
Re: Adrian and Sophie Horne - one bloke with a pierced dick:
Until I read this I thought it was “Adrian strokes Sophie”, because Sophie was the name of his, er, pet pant snake.
May 10th, 2008
Stuart
Just a small one but think this line should be ‘Of cliched old spinsters who‘ve never been loved’.
May 30th, 2008
gavinski
i think it’s ‘and all the jehovah’s witnesses’
and it’s definitely ‘old lady’
for a comment, i am ecstatic over the exuberant excellence of the line
‘the fireworks lighting up the houses of parliament’
irony? sarcasm? satire? all three?
also, the marvellous vision of the end of this song almost came true on the golden jubilee in 2002 with brian may standing on the roof of buckingham palace like a bell tossing off his guitar END.
touche, mr blackwell
Jun 29th, 2008
Neil G
The first line sounds like ‘I feel like a beggar accepting Elms’, not ‘alms’. The ‘l’ is clearly pronounced, which it would not be if it were ‘alms’. Alms sound like arms. It’s definitely ‘elms’. Why, I don’t know, but it is. I’ve just listened to it several times.
Sep 23rd, 2008
grim
Neil G: I don’t see why there’s a reason to prefer a lyric which makes no sense over a lyric which makes very good sense, over a quibble of pronunciation - especially not when “alms” is one of those frequently mispronounced words that carries a silent “L”. So I’m sticking with “alms”.
Sep 23rd, 2008
Andrew McAuley
Sorry it’s alms… Birkenhead accent. Unsure as to the pelted with figs reference. Wonder if it’s tied into sycophant - a fig seller? Agree in toto with Gavin.
Sep 23rd, 2008
Fredorrarci
It sounds very much like “illusory boardroom suites to these ears.
Sep 23rd, 2008
Fredorrarci
And, to be ultra-ultra-pedantic, I reckon there should be quotation marks around “I’ve got no time for this twelfth consecutive rose bowl”, given that it seems to be said by old Brynnie.
Sep 23rd, 2008
Neil G
Grim: Are we expecting sense in the entire HMHB oeuvre? I would simply ask you to trust your ears, rather than your expectations. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, call it a duck. This most definitely sounds like elms. Elms don’t walk or quack, so I suppose there is a lack of evidence on those fronts.
We have an example of the unexpecteds that exist in HMHB lyrics with the ‘pelted with figs’ line. Why figs? Are you sure that’s not ‘eggs’ with a Birkenhead accent? Eggs are much more commonly used for pelting. Or perhaps it was a spoonerism. Perhaps he meant ‘felted with pigs’? This conjures up pictures of acquiescent porkers lying across garage roofs, keeping out the rain. Maybe that’s a step too far.
Oh what a confusing world it can be.
Anyway, it doesn’t really matter. There are far more important things in the world.
Incidentally, I live about six miles from Birkenhead and I’ve never heard anyone pronounce ‘alms’ as ‘elms’, but I’ve never heard anyone from there say either of those words, so that’s inconclusive.
Sep 24th, 2008
Dave F.
Great Site Chris
Neil G.: You seen to be missing the main point - that it sounds like alms not elms & as Grim points out - it makes sense. And why would the ‘l’ be silent? Whenever I’ve said it or here it said, the ‘l’ is always pronounced. Not that I say it much (Note To Self: Drop ‘alms’ into the conversation more often).
Also I thinks it’s boardroom ’suites’ I’m sure there’s a ‘wa’ sound going on. Why?, I don’t know.
Sep 27th, 2008
Ben
Just to add a tuppence worth, how would you accept elms?
“Oh here’s a tree for you Mr poor person, I believe it’s an Elm, hope this helps alleviate your suffering in your current destitute state”
Sep 28th, 2008
Neil G
Dave F,
I don’t want to offend but if you are pronouncing ‘alms’ with an ‘l’ sound, then you are pronouncing it incorrectly. This site gives the correct pronunciation. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/alms
I don’t know why the song sounds like ‘elms’. I didn’t write the song or sing it. I only heard it. It may well be ‘alms’ pronouced incorrectly. That does make more sense, but it doesn’t sound like ‘alms’. That’s all I’m saying. It may be ‘elms’ just to sound silly. Why on earth am I writing this?
Sep 30th, 2008
Fredorrarci
Neil G,
In defence of Dave F, I would say that pronouncing the ‘l’ in alms is non-standard rather than “incorrect”.
And though I can see where you’re coming from in thinking that it could be ‘elms’, and even given Nigel’s off-beat lyrical sense, I think a beggar accepting elms is a tad too odd even for HMHB.
Oct 1st, 2008
Neil G
Fredorrarci,
I love your name. You’re not the chairman of the Spelling Society, are you? You know, the one who said that the English language is a bit too difficult for children these days and that they should be allowed to spell words any way they want to. Or perhaps you are the chairman of the Pronunciation Society, which avers that anyone should be able to pronounce words in whatever way they want. Very liberal and enlightened, I agree, as it ensures that all will have prizes, nobody can ever be wrong and nobody need ever feel embarrassment at their mistakes, since they never make any.
I accept that the language is not fixed, that there are dialectal (as opposed to dialectical) variations in the way people pronounce words but, from the 1700s onwards, with the advent of general dictionaries, progress has been made in many fields by our agreeing to common spellings and more or less common pronunciations. I have never heard anyone ever pronounce ‘alms’ with an audible ‘L’. If we look at any dictionary, we will not find one that contains such a pronunciation as an acceptable variation. To my mind, that brands it as an ‘incorrect’ pronunciation rather than a ‘non-standard’ one. However, I am willing to accept that someone, somewhere may pronounce ‘alms’ thus, albeit idiosyncratically.
It may be that Nigel uses the word ‘elms’ playfully. Whenever I see the word ‘awry’, I always pronounce it as ‘ory’, as in story, just for fun. While reading out the clues for the crossword when I was a child, I pronounced it that way, having never seen it before. It stuck with me. Similarly, the word ‘misled’ always comes out as ‘mizzled’. It’s playing with words. It is not beyond the bounds of the imagination to think that Nigel could simply be playing with words.
I have finished writing upon this subject now, so anyone who wants to add anything will be guaranteed the last word. I must go and save the world.
Oct 8th, 2008
Fredorrarci
Sure, it could be wordplay on Nigel’s part. But I guess it’s a question of having to plump for one or the other, and on balance I believe it’s ‘alms’ (besides the matter of what a beggar would be doing accepting elms, the vowel sounds far too open to be an ‘e’ sound, to these ears at least). But of course we could probably never entirely rule out ‘elms’ unless Nigel himself decides to pop by.
I don’t honestly know how common it is to pronounce the ‘l’ in ‘alms’, whether it is regional or idiosyncratic or perhaps a Blackwell family original. There is one possible reason for Nigel to have pronounced it that I’ve just thought of, though I admit it’s highly unlikely: perhaps he had never, or very rarely, heard anyone say the word, and assumed the ‘l’ was not silent. I have a feeling it’s just Nigel being Nigel, though - see how he gives the “-ar” in “vinegar” its full value on “Little In The Way Of Sunshine”. He seems to like messing around like that.
I fully agree with your point on the effectiveness of standardised spelling. Pronunciation is a different matter. I come from Ireland, and pronounce many words in ways not to be found in any dictionaries. Nevertheless, I would expect that if you were to hear me speak you would no doubt be able to understand virtually everything I say. If I were to say to you “I saw a great fillim last night”, I’m sure you’d catch my drift. Similarly, if someone were to talk about a ‘beggar accepting alms’, pronouncing the ‘l’, it would be reasonable to hear it as ‘alms’ despite its non-standard pronunciation. If, however, they were to say ‘beggar accepting biscuits’, and were to expect you to understand that ‘biscuits’ was an acceptable way to pronounce ‘alms’, that would be unreasonable.
I know that’s verging on reductio ad absurdum, and may not even make much sense, but my point is that ultimately, language is about getting your point across and being understood (how successful I’ve been in this regard with this comment I’m not sure!). It’s not woolly-headedly liberal or school-sports-day to accept that the ways to do so are variable, that the parameters are somewhat broader than is often allowed for, and that it is wrong to dismiss anything which does not fall slap-bang in the middle of the paramaters as ‘incorrect’. That said, language is a convention, and if you go too far beyond the bounds of this convention it is reasonable to use such a description. It depends on where you set those parameters, and to me alms-with-the-l-pronounced fits somewhere within them.
As for my name, it’s playing with words.
I can well understand your reluctance to comment further on the topic; it is exactly the kind of debate which tends to go round in circles. And Chris is probably fed up with it and all. I respond to your excellent comment not to have the final word, but just to make my position clear. Hope it has!
Oct 8th, 2008
Chris The Siteowner
> And Chris is probably fed up with it and all
No, it’s amusing. But if you’d like to spend the time in more gainful employment (perhaps trying to decipher “Multitude” or “Ready Steady Goa” for me), please feel free!
Oct 9th, 2008
Peter Gandy
Agree that it must be alms; even though it sounded very elms like last night at the forum. See ’subsequently’ for Nigel’s occasionally non-standard pronunciation.
Oct 17th, 2008
gary s
No love, no peace
K-now love, k-now peace
Maybe he pronounced the L so it didn’t sound like arms.
Oct 19th, 2008
Mr Larrington
Listened to the Forum version of this yesterday - definitely “alms”.
Dec 19th, 2008
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