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> <channel><title>Comments on: We’ve had Cant conformism since 1966</title> <atom:link href="http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/we%e2%80%99ve-had-cant-conformism-since-1966/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/we%e2%80%99ve-had-cant-conformism-since-1966/</link> <description>Busking this at Embankment Tube tomorrow</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 02:30:21 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" /> <item><title>By: Chris The Siteowner</title><link>http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/we%e2%80%99ve-had-cant-conformism-since-1966/comment-page-1/#comment-20083</link> <dc:creator>Chris The Siteowner</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2011 10:27:33 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/?p=662#comment-20083</guid> <description>Er, yes Jack, I think you&#039;re missing having heard the song.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Er, yes Jack, I think you&#8217;re missing having heard the song.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jack Leaves</title><link>http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/we%e2%80%99ve-had-cant-conformism-since-1966/comment-page-1/#comment-20082</link> <dc:creator>Jack Leaves</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2011 10:23:56 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/?p=662#comment-20082</guid> <description>OK I&#039;m sure I&#039;m missing something but aren&#039;t the lyrics under &#039;Banjo&#039; actually from Trumpton Riots?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m missing something but aren&#8217;t the lyrics under &#8216;Banjo&#8217; actually from Trumpton Riots?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Chris The Siteowner</title><link>http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/we%e2%80%99ve-had-cant-conformism-since-1966/comment-page-1/#comment-2597</link> <dc:creator>Chris The Siteowner</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 06:50:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/?p=662#comment-2597</guid> <description>Ah, Brian Cant. Look, we&#039;ve had precious few celebrity supporters here at Ipswich, so you don&#039;t think I&#039;m going to let the possibility of one of them being mentioned in an HMHB song go, do you?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, Brian Cant. Look, we&#8217;ve had precious few celebrity supporters here at Ipswich, so you don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m going to let the possibility of one of them being mentioned in an HMHB song go, do you?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Dave F.</title><link>http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/we%e2%80%99ve-had-cant-conformism-since-1966/comment-page-1/#comment-2585</link> <dc:creator>Dave F.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 23:36:09 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/?p=662#comment-2585</guid> <description>Prolix! Prolix!
Where is Nick Cave with his pair of scissors, when you need him?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prolix! Prolix!<br
/> Where is Nick Cave with his pair of scissors, when you need him?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Neil G</title><link>http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/we%e2%80%99ve-had-cant-conformism-since-1966/comment-page-1/#comment-2584</link> <dc:creator>Neil G</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 20:28:52 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/?p=662#comment-2584</guid> <description>&quot;I won’t give references&quot;
Thank the Lord for small mercies.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I won’t give references&#8221;</p><p>Thank the Lord for small mercies.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Paul F</title><link>http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/we%e2%80%99ve-had-cant-conformism-since-1966/comment-page-1/#comment-2583</link> <dc:creator>Paul F</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 18:56:13 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/?p=662#comment-2583</guid> <description>You lost me at &quot;Well&quot;.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You lost me at &#8220;Well&#8221;.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Charles Exford</title><link>http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/we%e2%80%99ve-had-cant-conformism-since-1966/comment-page-1/#comment-2582</link> <dc:creator>Charles Exford</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 17:47:14 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/?p=662#comment-2582</guid> <description>Well, whilst going mental to this song in a great many Bickies moshes since 1986 I may have sung &quot;Mrs. Honeybun&quot;, having I guess just convinced meself as a tiny kid watching Trumpton from 1966 onwards that that&#039;s what her name was ... but at least I know me etymology, me revolutionary politics, me narrators and me German philosophers, and I know it ain&#039;t &quot;Kant&quot;.
[Actually I can&#039;t tell which of you really believe what they&#039;re saying &amp; who&#039;s just taking the p*** here, so at the risk of making a fool of meself and/or being even more boring than usual,  I&#039;ve done that googling-to back-up-what-I-thought-I-knew thing and here goes...]
Whatever the pun, it all comes from the same root word anyway.
Brian Cant and Immanuel Kant&#039;s mutual surname (see below) originated in the medieval period, from the Old French or Latin word for song or singer.
But from the 12th century onwards, before people even knew what a surname was, never mind how to spell it, the same church-Latin word for chant/song, &quot;cantus&quot;,  had come into Olde English as &quot;cant&quot;, used as a pejorative term for dogma, pointless or hypocritical rhetoric, obscure jargon, words you say but you don&#039;t really understand (like when you were chanting the Latin mass) or don&#039;t really mean, etc. and there it has stayed. We get &quot;chant&quot; from the French and &quot;cant&quot; from the Latin word it would seem.
As Big Sammy Johnson said to one of his mates:
&lt;em&gt;&quot;My dear friend, clear your mind of cant. You may talk in this manner; it is a mode of talking in society: but don&#039;t think foolishly.&quot;
&lt;/em&gt;
What you need a bloody good dictionary, better than Johnson&#039;s,  to find out is that it was and still is  also an adjective, meaning  &quot;of, or having the nature of, cant.&quot;  Webster&#039;s 1913 edition gave us a quote from Jonny Swift:
&lt;em&gt;&quot;To introduce and multiply cant words is the most
ruinous corruption in any language.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;
This is a song featuring militants, socialists, etc. In political debates, especially involving socialist ideas, etc., it really is quite commonly used, though maybe not as common as when I were a lad,  to dismiss dogma as &quot;a load of old cant&quot;, or even occasionally as an adjective &quot;that&#039;s just cant old Trotskyist nonsense&quot;, &quot;cant Thatcherite rhetoric&quot; etc. Believe me, I was there. It&#039;s a very angry and dismissive word, which is why it made such a superb pun in this setting - Trumpton - where Brian Cant was the narrator.
The surnames Cant and Kant come from the same root. They were probably descended somewhere along the line from church singers/chanters. I cannot see what this song can possibly have to do with Immanuel Kant, but in a way that doesn&#039;t matter - Kant is already wrapped up in the pun anyway, because  Brian and Immanuel may even be descended from the same roots, unlikely as it seems. Apparently a whole load of Cants came from Flanders to Scotland in late medieval times. Immanuel&#039;s grandad was a Scottish Cant but emigrated to East Prussia late C17th, and even Kant&#039;s dad still spelt it &quot;Cant&quot; before it was Germanised.
Meanwhile all I know about Brian&#039;s roots is that his dad was an engineer in Ipswich, where Brian grew up (and that his mum&#039;s dad was a roller skater in the music halls I kid you not) and it may just be that in lots of parts of England choristers got the &quot;cant/chant/chantry&quot; surname, independently of the Flanders Scottish Cants that Kant descended from...
But having seen far too many episodes of the act-ors and actresses tracing their roots in the horribly fascinating &quot;Who Do You Think You Are...?&quot; series - well, you never know, do you?
I won&#039;t give references. You can google.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, whilst going mental to this song in a great many Bickies moshes since 1986 I may have sung &#8220;Mrs. Honeybun&#8221;, having I guess just convinced meself as a tiny kid watching Trumpton from 1966 onwards that that&#8217;s what her name was &#8230; but at least I know me etymology, me revolutionary politics, me narrators and me German philosophers, and I know it ain&#8217;t &#8220;Kant&#8221;.</p><p>[Actually I can't tell which of you really believe what they're saying &amp; who's just taking the p*** here, so at the risk of making a fool of meself and/or being even more boring than usual,  I've done that googling-to back-up-what-I-thought-I-knew thing and here goes...]</p><p>Whatever the pun, it all comes from the same root word anyway.</p><p>Brian Cant and Immanuel Kant&#8217;s mutual surname (see below) originated in the medieval period, from the Old French or Latin word for song or singer.</p><p>But from the 12th century onwards, before people even knew what a surname was, never mind how to spell it, the same church-Latin word for chant/song, &#8220;cantus&#8221;,  had come into Olde English as &#8220;cant&#8221;, used as a pejorative term for dogma, pointless or hypocritical rhetoric, obscure jargon, words you say but you don&#8217;t really understand (like when you were chanting the Latin mass) or don&#8217;t really mean, etc. and there it has stayed. We get &#8220;chant&#8221; from the French and &#8220;cant&#8221; from the Latin word it would seem.</p><p>As Big Sammy Johnson said to one of his mates:<br
/> <em>&#8220;My dear friend, clear your mind of cant. You may talk in this manner; it is a mode of talking in society: but don&#8217;t think foolishly.&#8221;<br
/> </em><br
/> What you need a bloody good dictionary, better than Johnson&#8217;s,  to find out is that it was and still is  also an adjective, meaning  &#8220;of, or having the nature of, cant.&#8221;  Webster&#8217;s 1913 edition gave us a quote from Jonny Swift:<br
/> <em>&#8220;To introduce and multiply cant words is the most<br
/> ruinous corruption in any language.&#8221;</em></p><p>This is a song featuring militants, socialists, etc. In political debates, especially involving socialist ideas, etc., it really is quite commonly used, though maybe not as common as when I were a lad,  to dismiss dogma as &#8220;a load of old cant&#8221;, or even occasionally as an adjective &#8220;that&#8217;s just cant old Trotskyist nonsense&#8221;, &#8220;cant Thatcherite rhetoric&#8221; etc. Believe me, I was there. It&#8217;s a very angry and dismissive word, which is why it made such a superb pun in this setting &#8211; Trumpton &#8211; where Brian Cant was the narrator.</p><p>The surnames Cant and Kant come from the same root. They were probably descended somewhere along the line from church singers/chanters. I cannot see what this song can possibly have to do with Immanuel Kant, but in a way that doesn&#8217;t matter &#8211; Kant is already wrapped up in the pun anyway, because  Brian and Immanuel may even be descended from the same roots, unlikely as it seems. Apparently a whole load of Cants came from Flanders to Scotland in late medieval times. Immanuel&#8217;s grandad was a Scottish Cant but emigrated to East Prussia late C17th, and even Kant&#8217;s dad still spelt it &#8220;Cant&#8221; before it was Germanised.</p><p>Meanwhile all I know about Brian&#8217;s roots is that his dad was an engineer in Ipswich, where Brian grew up (and that his mum&#8217;s dad was a roller skater in the music halls I kid you not) and it may just be that in lots of parts of England choristers got the &#8220;cant/chant/chantry&#8221; surname, independently of the Flanders Scottish Cants that Kant descended from&#8230;</p><p>But having seen far too many episodes of the act-ors and actresses tracing their roots in the horribly fascinating &#8220;Who Do You Think You Are&#8230;?&#8221; series &#8211; well, you never know, do you?</p><p>I won&#8217;t give references. You can google.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: dj</title><link>http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/we%e2%80%99ve-had-cant-conformism-since-1966/comment-page-1/#comment-2581</link> <dc:creator>dj</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 14:44:19 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/?p=662#comment-2581</guid> <description>cant, as in secret language</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cant, as in secret language</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Paul F</title><link>http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/we%e2%80%99ve-had-cant-conformism-since-1966/comment-page-1/#comment-2580</link> <dc:creator>Paul F</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 12:44:24 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/?p=662#comment-2580</guid> <description>&quot;Cant&quot; on the Back in the DHSS CD sleeve for what it&#039;s worth...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Cant&#8221; on the Back in the DHSS CD sleeve for what it&#8217;s worth&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Paul F</title><link>http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/we%e2%80%99ve-had-cant-conformism-since-1966/comment-page-1/#comment-2578</link> <dc:creator>Paul F</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 08:18:12 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/?p=662#comment-2578</guid> <description>Surely the &quot;Cant&quot; (as in Brian) is a pun on &quot;Kant&quot; rather than &quot;cant&quot;?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely the &#8220;Cant&#8221; (as in Brian) is a pun on &#8220;Kant&#8221; rather than &#8220;cant&#8221;?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
